Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Neither male nor female is not cultural
Paul's teaches that in Christ there is no spiritual difference based on economic, racial, or gender status. This teaching has recently been used by some as a universal principle to prove that men and women are not to function differently in the kingdom. The conclusion is that there is thus a universal command that the church not discriminate against women in terms of what they can or can't do in worship.
Except that is not how Paul believed it. The same Paul that wrote "neither male nor female" also wrote "as in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches." Neither male nor female in Christ is a definitive, universal teaching. But Paul indicates in the first century that women did not speak in worship. So whatever it is, it is not a universal principle in terms of worship functionality.
But that was cultural, some would say. It may be. My point is just that we not interpret one verse in a way that that Scripture itself would not support.
The degree or extent of women's participation in worship or in leadership cannot be taught from the spiritual principle of "neither male nor female". At best it is determined by culture. Or the I Corinthians 14 passage is universal, not cultural. Either way, the discussion cannot be that God's intent or command.is that spiritual equality is the same as functional equality.
At least that is how Scripture seems to me.
As I look at this issue, I'll share more of my thoughts later.
Except that is not how Paul believed it. The same Paul that wrote "neither male nor female" also wrote "as in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches." Neither male nor female in Christ is a definitive, universal teaching. But Paul indicates in the first century that women did not speak in worship. So whatever it is, it is not a universal principle in terms of worship functionality.
But that was cultural, some would say. It may be. My point is just that we not interpret one verse in a way that that Scripture itself would not support.
The degree or extent of women's participation in worship or in leadership cannot be taught from the spiritual principle of "neither male nor female". At best it is determined by culture. Or the I Corinthians 14 passage is universal, not cultural. Either way, the discussion cannot be that God's intent or command.is that spiritual equality is the same as functional equality.
At least that is how Scripture seems to me.
As I look at this issue, I'll share more of my thoughts later.
Comments:
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I've had opportunity lately to look at the role of women, and I'm not so confident as I used to be that we've understood the relevant passages.
For example, are the women who are praying and prophesying in 1 Cor 11 doing so in a public (men-present) environment or in a private (women-only) environment? A few sentences before, Paul talks of the Corinthians keeping the traditions he had delivered to them (v. 2), which might indicate the way things are done publicly. And then a few verses later, Paul makes it plain that he's now talking about a public assembly.
If these women are praying & prophesying in a public assembly, that surely colors our understanding of Paul's later instruction that all churches have the tradition of women remaining silent in the assemblies.
Add to that the questionable details of the "remain silent" passage (the written Law nowhere instructs women to remain silent, and the Oral Law which does have this injunction is not otherwise referred to by Paul as authoritative and is rejected by Jesus as being authoritative (Matt 15:1-9); this passage is in various positions in different manuscripts; etc), and you really have to wonder if we've misunderstood the text on this point.
Myself, I tend to lean toward the idea that Paul is doing an interlinear response to the letter he had gotten from the Corinthians asking about certain things:
Q. You say, "Everything's permissible" - 1 Cor 6:12ff
A. Yes, but not necessarily helpful
Q. You ask, "Should a man get married?"
A. About these matters... (1 Cor 7:1)
Q. You ask, "Can we eat meat offered to idols?"
A. Yes, and no (1 Cor 8:1ff)
Q. You say, "Women must remain silent, as the oral law says." (1 Cor 14:33b-35)
A. What?! Did the word of God originate from or come to you men only?! (1 Cor 14:36)
If this view is correct, then Paul's point is that if women have been given the gift of prophesy (as in 1 Cor 11), then we men have no business telling them to remain quiet.
Now, is that the correct interpretation here? I don't know. I can't prove it. And it goes against an entire lifetime of teaching. But it raises sufficient question in my mind to prevent me from saying that Paul wrote that women should remain silent in the churches.
For example, are the women who are praying and prophesying in 1 Cor 11 doing so in a public (men-present) environment or in a private (women-only) environment? A few sentences before, Paul talks of the Corinthians keeping the traditions he had delivered to them (v. 2), which might indicate the way things are done publicly. And then a few verses later, Paul makes it plain that he's now talking about a public assembly.
If these women are praying & prophesying in a public assembly, that surely colors our understanding of Paul's later instruction that all churches have the tradition of women remaining silent in the assemblies.
Add to that the questionable details of the "remain silent" passage (the written Law nowhere instructs women to remain silent, and the Oral Law which does have this injunction is not otherwise referred to by Paul as authoritative and is rejected by Jesus as being authoritative (Matt 15:1-9); this passage is in various positions in different manuscripts; etc), and you really have to wonder if we've misunderstood the text on this point.
Myself, I tend to lean toward the idea that Paul is doing an interlinear response to the letter he had gotten from the Corinthians asking about certain things:
Q. You say, "Everything's permissible" - 1 Cor 6:12ff
A. Yes, but not necessarily helpful
Q. You ask, "Should a man get married?"
A. About these matters... (1 Cor 7:1)
Q. You ask, "Can we eat meat offered to idols?"
A. Yes, and no (1 Cor 8:1ff)
Q. You say, "Women must remain silent, as the oral law says." (1 Cor 14:33b-35)
A. What?! Did the word of God originate from or come to you men only?! (1 Cor 14:36)
If this view is correct, then Paul's point is that if women have been given the gift of prophesy (as in 1 Cor 11), then we men have no business telling them to remain quiet.
Now, is that the correct interpretation here? I don't know. I can't prove it. And it goes against an entire lifetime of teaching. But it raises sufficient question in my mind to prevent me from saying that Paul wrote that women should remain silent in the churches.
That is the place to have the debate. What does the Scripture about women in worship mean? My real point in this is to try to get away from making this about spiritual equality. Different functions for men and women does not have anything to do with one's spiritual value to God.
Thanks for the comments.
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Thanks for the comments.
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